Thursday, November 20, 2008

Pro life?

I've often wondered this. What is the meaning of Pro-life?
The only time I ever see it applied is with unborn babies. Surely, most people would argue that abortion isn't the best option. We all hope that one would pick to carry out the pregnancy and give the baby up for adoption. But that isn't our choice to project onto people.

How come this "pro-life" movement doesn't carry over to the people that are already living?
Think about all the groups that the pro-lifers conveniently ignore....

--People that live with chronic disease. Getting back to the argument against Universal Healthcare. How come we can't all agree that these people need to be taken care of so they can have a better quality of life?

--People with mental disease. Many times these folks are homeless, broken. People make cruel jokes and insist that these people did this to themselves. And they dont' realize that a good portion of the homeless are veteran's that the system neglected. We are so patriotic when we send these people off, yet when they come back we can't be bothered to treat them for all of the horrors they experienced for our freedom.

--Convicts. I am not arguing whether the death penalty is appropriate. That's another arguement for another day. However, it's odd to me how pro-lifers can be for the death penalty. If all lives are worth saving, then shouldn't convicts be included in that. And what about the people that are wrongly convicted... surely some of them fall through the cracks.

--Children put up for adoption. - They don't always get warm, loving homes. Alot of times they are put into foster homes that aren't ideal. If they're children that aren't coveted, they get pushed aside. AND.. now that we are trying to make it illegal for gay parents to adopt, this leaves more children unloved.

Please, please explain this to me.

48 comments:

cynthiaa said...

i always agree exact with you.

haha.

i gave you an award!!!

check it out: http://cynthialovespictures.blogspot.com/2008/11/my-first-blog-award.html

patrick said...

RE: Death Penalty:
http://www.usccb.org/prolife/programs/rlp/00rljud.shtml

RE: Chronic Disease/Disabilities:
http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/disabilities/index.shtml

RE:End of Life Issues / Euthanasia:
http://www.usccb.org/prolife/issues/euthanas/index.shtml#1

RE: Adoption/ Homosexuals:
http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=3985

Lynn said...

I would like an explanation as well! I think that many within the pro-life movement are pro-life because they are "supposed" to be - i.e. their church or faith tells them they MUST be or else they arenn't true believers. I find that few have actually thought through the ramifications of their beliefs.

What ever happened to "putting yourself in someone else's shoes"

Jen said...

Why does the Catholic community think that "their" laws should run our country. We have separation of church and govt for a reason. Freedom of religion includes all other religions aside from catholicism AND people who aren't religious.

patrick said...

Jen-

I was trying to give you answers to your questions/comments in your post. I posted the things that I did because they are what I believe. No one says that you have to believe them...as far as laws, since when has the Church tried to pass laws in this country?
Jen, let me ask you do you think most of our laws are based on what society finds moral or not moral? Like our laws on rape and murder?

Lynn,

I am Pro-Life and religious. I have researched what my religion has to say about these things and come to the conclusion that I do believe what they have to say :)

patrick said...

How come this "pro-life" movement doesn't carry over to the people that are already living?
Think about all the groups that the pro-lifers conveniently ignore....


This pro-lifer has not ignored these things...as I have already showed you.

Does this burst your bubble somehow?

monkey girl said...

I knew your post would open up a can of worms...however, I give you kudos for opening up the discussion, especially when you know people will come out of the woodwork to comment. Of course, I'm pro-choice all the way. Any discussion that involves religion holds no weight to me. I respect all religions, however my body, is my body. I do feel the comment, "since when has the Church tried to pass laws in this country?" is incredibly naive. When has the Catholic church NOT been involved? The Church was very much involved in Prop 8 in California and spend $20+million dollars for advertising.
I find it interesting that Patrick is for LESS government in health care and education but has no problem getting the government MORE involved with a choice that involves my body. Keep your religious preferences to yourself,if you don't want an abortion don't get one.

Jen said...

I should clarify that I definately respect everyone's right to their religion. I probably don't agree with a lot of the things.. but I think it's important for people to be spiritual, whatever form that takes.

I think most people feel that govt and church should be separated, however look at the changes that Bush made based on his faith. The problem with that, is that not everyone believes the same faith and so that becomes a problem.

And you have to agree, that most people that believe in pro life are much more concerned with unborn babies than the rest of the bunch.

patrick said...

Jen & Monkey Girl-

Let me ask you this do either of you have a problem if your underage daughter got an abortion without parental notification? Do you have any issue with your money going to support abortion /stem cell research if you find these things morally wrong?


In elevating abortion to a fundamental right, FOCA poses an undeniable and irreparable danger to common-sense laws supported by a majority of Americans. Among the more than 550 federal and state laws that FOCA would nullify are:
Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003
Hyde Amendment (restricting taxpayer funding of abortions)
Restrictions on abortions performed at military hospitals
Restrictions on insurance coverage for abortion for federal employees
Informed consent laws
Waiting periods
Parental consent and notification laws
Health and safety regulations for abortion clinics
Requirements that licensed physicians perform abortions
“Delayed enforcement” laws (banning abortion when Roe v. Wade is overturned and/or the authority to restrict abortion is returned to the states)
Bans on partial-birth abortion
Bans on abortion after viability. FOCA’s apparent attempt to limit post-viability abortions is illusory. Under FOCA, post-viability abortions are expressly permitted to protect the woman’s “health.” Within the context of abortion, “health” has been interpreted so broadly that FOCA would not actually proscribe any abortion before or after viability.
Limits on public funding for elective abortions (thus, making American taxpayers fund a procedure that many find morally objectionable)
Limits on the use of public facilities (such has public hospitals and medical schools at state universities) for abortions
State and federal legal protections for individual healthcare providers who decline to participate in abortions
Legal protections for Catholic and other religiously-affiliated hospitals who, while providing care to millions of poor and uninsured Americans, refuse to allow abortions within their facilities


Now in regards to Prop 8 did you know that the LDS raised more $$ than the Catholics to fight Prop 8? Also it was not the "Catholic Church" that fought against Prop 8 but it was its members, kudos to them for standing up to their beliefs! This is no different than Planned Parenthood (the USA's largest abortion mill) funding Pro-Choice issues!

Now if you really are pro-life then you stand behind rights for ALL the living--those in the womb, those with illness, those on their death beds--it should not matter what stage they are at in LIFE they should be protected!

Jen said...

First of all, I don't have a daughter. But I do understand that situation and honestly, it would depend upon the maturity of my daughter. I would hope that we have a good enough relationship that she would discuss it with me and so it wouldn't be without "parental notification".
I honestly don't have a problem with money funding it. There are plenty of things my money funds that I don't agree or have a say of, so I don't stress out too much about it.

And I am a big supporter of stem cell research. If embryos are sitting around and will not be used and will just be destroyed anyway, we might as well us them to solve chronic diseases.

patrick said...


Jen said...
First of all, I don't have a daughter. But I do understand that situation and honestly, it would depend upon the maturity of my daughter. I would hope that we have a good enough relationship that she would discuss it with me and so it wouldn't be without "parental notification".
I honestly don't have a problem with money funding it. There are plenty of things my money funds that I don't agree or have a say of, so I don't stress out too much about it.


Jen, so you are totally ok "if" you daughter went and got medical treatment without your consent? WOW!

I too do not have a daughter but I would have major issues with them seeking any medical treatment while underage with out my consent!!! As to my money going to fund murder of the unborn I do have issues with that! Where will it stop then Jen. Will you force doctors to preform abortions if they are morally against them? Will you mandate that all pharmacies carry ABC if they are morally against them?? You have no issues with funding abortions for people in other countries?

In regards to stem cells do you know that more advancements have been made with adult stem cells than with embryonic?

Jen said...

I don't understand the whole "forcing" doctors to do abortions. If they are skilled enough to do them, then they ethically must be okay with it. I don't think any doctor would work at an abortion clinic if they were morally against performing them.

And, I'm not sure if you are talking about the Morning after pill, but if they are an approved medication, then pharmacists need to provide them whether they like it or not.

Isn't this part of the whole capitalism thing? You can't have it both ways. You can't want a hands off system, but then place your hands on it as you please.

And for the daugher scenario... I'd have to be in the situation first to see how I would respond... but I am much more liberal in my view of this than you , for sure.

patrick said...

And, I'm not sure if you are talking about the Morning after pill, but if they are an approved medication, then pharmacists need to provide them whether they like it or not.


No they do not have to carry any drug that they do not want to, that is the point. There are tons of small pharmacies out there that do not carry birth control or the morning after pill. that is their moral and religious right! Also many states allow a pharmacist to not fill an RX for Birth control on religious/moral grounds--they can send the people to another pharmacy or if there is another pharmacist working they can have that person fill it!


And for the daugher scenario... I'd have to be in the situation first to see how I would respond... but I am much more liberal in my view of this than you , for sure.


O-Kay! Just don't be so liberal that if and when your daughter gets an abortion with out your consent and something happens that you sue the doctor or hospital :-)
And as a side note why is the government looking to take away your parental rights for your own kids in this matter? That is kinda scary if you ask me!

I don't understand the whole "forcing" doctors to do abortions. If they are skilled enough to do them, then they ethically must be okay with it. I don't think any doctor would work at an abortion clinic if they were morally against performing them.


Some state conscience clauses were enacted to protect medical students when teaching hospitals started requiring residents to perform an abortion in order to complete the requirements of the OB residency rotation. FOCA will end those legal protections and pro-lifers may eventually be barred from practicing OB medicine.

Jen said...

I think that if you are going to be an OB, then you should have to learn how to perform one. Not merely for elected abortions, but for a routine D&C that sometimes is necessary.

For the morning after pill scenario... there is a tight time frame by which that pill needs to be taken, so ... if someone declines to provide it, they should know where to direct the person to go. Might be tricky in rural area.. but that pill should be available to whomever needs it, within the time frame they need to take it. Isn't it over the counter now? or.. maybe they're in the process of that.

Jen said...

And... with my daughter... I'd be more concerned if abortions were made illegal and she tried to get one without my knowledge. That would be more risky than her going to a qualified Planned Parenthood for guidance.

patrick said...


Jen said...
And... with my daughter... I'd be more concerned if abortions were made illegal and she tried to get one without my knowledge. That would be more risky than her going to a qualified Planned Parenthood for guidance.


Okay that is really scary! So you have no issues with the daughter (if you have one one day) getting an abortion at the age of say 14 and nobody has to notify you? You think going to PP is the best option? Should you not be told of what is going on with your minor child? Why are you so willing to relinquish your parental rights to an organization like PP?

patrick said...

I think that if you are going to be an OB, then you should have to learn how to perform one. Not merely for elected abortions, but for a routine D&C that sometimes is necessary.


Doing an abortion and a D&C because of a miscarriage say are two different things! Why are you willing to force people that have a calling to be a pro-life ob/gyn to do things that they find morally wrong?


For the morning after pill scenario... there is a tight time frame by which that pill needs to be taken, so ... if someone declines to provide it, they should know where to direct the person to go. Might be tricky in rural area.. but that pill should be available to whomever needs it, within the time frame they need to take it. Isn't it over the counter now? or.. maybe they're in the process of that.


Once again, over the counter or not if you own the pharmacy and do not want to stock these items you should not be forced to. Why are you forcing companies to fund or source things that they find morally disgusting?

You keep saying that you respect each persons religion but so far you have no issues taking away these peoples rights because they believe differently than you. Nice respect!

You also advocate giving up your parental rights to PP or the government just so your underage kid can get an abortion or access to drugs that could kill her, so where do you draw the line at? Are you willing to give up all parental rights regarding education, health, religion etc. or jsut a select few? Some of us parents have no desire to give up any of our rights, nor should we have to!

monkey girl said...

Since the question was asked, here's my two cents...

I have absolutely no problem w/my tax money going to abortions for women who can't afford them. I think it's criminal that poorer women can't afford abortions. People bitch, bitch, bitch about tax $$ going to abortions and then bitch some more when these mothers and children need help with food, bills, and medical care. You can't have it both ways.
As for the other...
I have two girls 10 and 15 and I'd hope my girls would feel they could come to me to discuss pregnancy/abortion, etc...I've raised them to know that they could come to me with anything. period. no judgment. However, many teens can't go to their parents. I'd rather a teen choose to have an abortion and keep it a secret if she feels her parents would force her to carry the child because of THEIR religious beliefs (or even suffer abuse). So yes, if an underage teen, INCLUDING MY OWN wants an abortion without notifying the parents (or me) yes, they deserve that right. period. I would just hope my own daughters will feel that they can come to me first. You talk as if it's SO EASY to get an abortion, like all I have to do is go down, make an appt. and wham it's done. There are waiting periods in almost every state. Most states require the mother to put her wishes in writing. As if, the woman doesn't give it any thought. I choose to think (and give credit to) that most women in that position have already given it thought and know what's best for them. I don't question their decisions. Anyone that does, I find that insulting. Since many of you don't know, my fifteen year old can already see doctors without my consent. My oldest went in for a kidney ultrasound and when the results came in they wouldn't give me the results because at 15 she's considered of age (medically) and all her medical needs are ALREADY considered private. Did you know that? My fifteen year old has to sign a waiver saying it's okay to give me any of her medical information. That's already a law. I'm okay with this because my daughter and I have a good relationship...but what about the girls that want birth control but her parents won't let her....should she be able to get private medical care? Or would you rather these kids have unprotected sex? Stop treating these kids like incompetent morons...these kids know more about their situations than you ever could.
I'm sorry but if you're going to be a pharmacist and I bring in a prescription for birth control/morning after pill, etc...they have a obligation to fill it...it's legal and the law...if it's against their religious beliefs then find another job. Your religious beliefs don't mean a damn thing to me. I don't have to believe in your GOD. period. It's called the freedom of religion.
Stem cell research? Love it.
Death penalty? Necessary
Gay marriage? Should be legal in every state


And as regards to Prop 8...What's your point? LDS church? Catholic church? it's all religion. what's the difference? If you don't want gay marriage, don't get one.
If you don't want to deal w/gays, then isolate yourself. If you don't want abortion then don't get one. Keep your religious beliefs to yourself and I'll do the same.

monkey girl said...

And I thank god for the people at planned parenthood. Their angels is my book.

monkey girl said...

I don't disrespect your religious beliefs, I choose to believe differently, and until taken away, my right to fill a prescription and get an abortion is still my LEGAL RIGHT which supercedes your religious objections...sorry, it's the law.

patrick said...

Actually Monkey girl-

It is not the law. If the pharmacy never carried these items then they legally do not have to carry them. Hence you can go to Walmart or target to get the RX filled but mom and pop who are Catholic or christians and do not want to carry BC or morning after pill do not have to carry it :)

So let me ask you you have no issues either with giving up your parental rights for an abortion, where else do you draw the line or don't you?

In my state I have access to my kids health records till they are 18 (legally an adult). I do not want to relinquish my rights because Monkey girl and Jen have no problem not being parents. I have never abdicated my rights in regards to my kids and I never will!

Yeah Moneky Girl stop treating these kids like morons. PP is really going to tell them the side effects of the pill or an abortion, not! It is raelly a wonderful day when you as a parent have no idea what pills your kids are popping or what surgeries they are having. But you will all be up in arms if one of your kids get hurts by the pills or surgeries and be crying why didnt anybody tell me!


PP founded by Margaret Sanger who was buddies with Hitler and loved Eugenics...wow really something to be proud of there!

patrick said...


monkey girl said...
I don't disrespect your religious beliefs, I choose to believe differently, and until taken away, my right to fill a prescription and get an abortion is still my LEGAL RIGHT which supercedes your religious objections...sorry, it's the law.


It may be your right to get an abortion but that does not mean you can walk into an OB/GYN office and demand the doctor perform one. It is his right and law to not perform abortions!

It may be your right to get BC, but that does not mean that every pharmacy has to carry them. that is there right and it is the law!

patrick said...

The number of U.S. abortion providers declined by 2% between 2000 and 2005 (from 1,819 to 1,787). Eighty-seven percent of all U.S. counties lacked an abortion provider in 2005; 35% of women live in those counties.

did you know that as of 2006 not a single doctor in SD would perform abortions...they had to fly in a special murder to do the deeds!
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/31/griffin.abortion/

Jen said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jen said...

Patrick -

First of all, you are turning my words all around. You are making them fit your tidy idea of being a parent. I think being a good parent would be explaining EVERY option to a child (age appropriate of course), explaining the consequences and benefits of both. You need to teach your children how to make their own decisions, not make them for them. My son is young. I tell him that if he wants to throw his food on the floor, he will pick it up and sit in time out. It's his choice whether or not he does it. If I have a daughter, I would teach her everything... not to have sex until she's older and in love. I will keep an open dialogue so she doesn't feel like she has to go behind my back. So, don't talk about me NOT being a parent.. you don't know me, you misconstrue my words on here.

The bottom line is if you are a professional... you realize that some aspects of your job may go beyond your moral beliefs. If that's the case, you need to find another line of work because EVERYONE gets to make their choices regardless of what your MORALS say. It's simple. They can find a different line of work.

Most women don't choose abortion easily. Most people opt for something different... Planned Parenthood is an excellent resource for anyone. You don't want kids(girls) to have abortions, but then it's criticized when they get birth control. They aren't going to be kids forever. They will grow and make their own decisions. You should sit down with the people at Planned Parenthood, you'd be surprised just how much counseling they give young girls. It's not their main business to push people into having abortions, they do everything they can to avoid that, but they respect one's decision and if that's what they decide to do, PP will support them.

monkey girl said...

Very well said, Jen. Thank you I couldn't have said it any better.

I, too, hope my children grow up to make good decisions, their decisions, based of their beliefs. All children will be autonomous one day, I can't make decisions for them their whole lives. At 10 and 15 my kids need to be making good decisions now, I've only got them a little while longer. I want all their decisions to be made after hearing all the information, not just bits and pieces. I want my kids to be free-thinkers and not followers. To be themselves.

Sometimes, I curse myself that I allow myself to be sucked into arguments that never go anywhere. However, it's still interesting to hear other's point of view...even if I don't agree with it.

I'll be a liberal till the day I die and I'm proud of it.

patrick said...

First of all, you are turning my words all around. You are making them fit your tidy idea of being a parent. I think being a good parent would be explaining EVERY option to a child (age appropriate of course), explaining the consequences and benefits of both. You need to teach your children how to make their own decisions, not make them for them. My son is young. I tell him that if he wants to throw his food on the floor, he will pick it up and sit in time out. It's his choice whether or not he does it. If I have a daughter, I would teach her everything... not to have sex until she's older and in love. I will keep an open dialogue so she doesn't feel like she has to go behind my back. So, don't talk about me NOT being a parent.. you don't know me, you misconstrue my words on here.

Actually I have not taken anything you said out of context. But I see once again you have avoided answering the simple question I asked.
If you have no issues being notified if your underage daughter seeks an abortion where else are you willing to abdicate your parental rights??
You are right...part of being a parent is explaining actions and consequences. My kids are taught that sex is for marriage only, that BC in their case condoms are not allowed and why they are not allowed. I have also taught them and shown them the realities of abortion.

The bottom line is if you are a professional... you realize that some aspects of your job may go beyond your moral beliefs. If that's the case, you need to find another line of work because EVERYONE gets to make their choices regardless of what your MORALS say. It's simple. They can find a different line of work.

No the bottom line is that you don't have to do things that you find morally disgusting!
My wifes OB/GYN is Pro-Life and he will not perform abortions. I see nothing wrong with that! His patients all know his stance on this. So as a side note how do you explain the doctors in SD that will not perform abortions...are they wrong for doing what they feel is right?

Most women don't choose abortion easily. Most people opt for something different... Planned Parenthood is an excellent resource for anyone. You don't want kids(girls) to have abortions, but then it's criticized when they get birth control. They aren't going to be kids forever. They will grow and make their own decisions. You should sit down with the people at Planned Parenthood, you'd be surprised just how much counseling they give young girls. It's not their main business to push people into having abortions, they do everything they can to avoid that, but they respect one's decision and if that's what they decide to do, PP will support them.

actually I have no desire to sit down with a bunch of people that advocate the murder of unborn children. That have no issue with parents not being notified if their minor kids seek treatment/surgery etc.

Planned Parenthoods main purpose is helping people with unintended pregnancies, getting abortions.

monkey girl said...

Jen,

Got your note on my blog, I e-mailed you, look in your spam if you don't see it.

-Monkey Girl

patrick said...

Moneky Girl-
No you can not make decisions for them their whole life but they are still minors (10,15) why are you and Jen so willing to abdicate your rights as parents to some for profit abortion mill like PP?

Jen said...

Okay.. I'm done with this argument. It's just something we won't see eye to eye on. You will always feel that abortion is murder and that your kids won't have sex unless their married (good luck with that one, stats show that almost never works).

I don't have to worry about "abdicating" my parental rights because I don't feel my children are belongings. They are thinking human beings that deserve to be treated with respect.

patrick said...

I don't have to worry about "abdicating" my parental rights because I don't feel my children are belongings. They are thinking human beings that deserve to be treated with respect.

So if little johnny wants to kill himself your ok with that and will tell him the pros and cons and whatever he decides is a-okay?

I know my children are not belongings Jen, but I also know that until they turn 18 I have a legal right to protect them/nurture them etc. I do not want the government doing it nor do I want the government teaching them or attempting to teach them things that I do not agree with. I do not appreciate people attempting to circumvent my rights as a parent--


Okay.. I'm done with this argument. It's just something we won't see eye to eye on. You will always feel that abortion is murder and that your kids won't have sex unless their married (good luck with that one, stats show that almost never works)

your right we will never see eye to eye on this, for many reasons and if I start to list them you will get your panties into a knot I am sure.

And actually one of my kids is 17 a senior in high-school and never had sex. Part of that could be because of the morals and values he learned at home and he does not date trampy/trashy girls that give it up for anything with a dick. See I have every faith that my kiddies will wait till marriage but then I have not relinquished my rights to PP or the government to educate them on morals/values/ethics!

Jen said...

Wow, just wow!
You sure told me.

monkey girl said...

"And actually one of my kids is 17 a senior in high-school and never had sex."

Wow. So you watch your kid 24/7? He has an early curfew, and you think kids only have sex at night?

When I hear parents say statements like these with such vigor and confidence it confounds me. Maybe it's true your son hasn't had 'sex' yet (are we just talking straight intercourse? Oral sex doesn't apply?). However statistics prove that he's in the almost non-existent minority.

I think you need to believe this, otherwise all your beliefs that you stand up for would crumble because you would find out that just telling your kid not to have sex doesn't work. Just like the other parents who refuse to allow condoms in high school and would rather believe their child would never have sex until marriage and wind up w/an STD or worse HIV. Pregnancy these days, is the least of their worries. Keep on being naive.

So, for the last time Patrick, here's my answer.

I'm not abdicating my parental rights. However, unlike you, I'm living in the real world, where I don't shelter my kids from knowledge. I treat them with respect. Every time you call a doctor a murderer you are twisting words and statements to fit your own viewpoint. Twisting words is when you say that we wouldn't mind our kids killing themselves. Which is a confusing argument...people commit suicide everyday, do you think they discuss it with their parents first? How is telling my daughter that it's critical that she respects herself enough to protect herself...the same as me saying ok go have sex I don't care. That's twisting words and statements.

And frankly, your statistics on abortion scare me, because all that shows me is Bush managed to make in harder for women to get abortions. And yes, I actually knew that statistics about S. Dakota and I find it incredibly sad, that if a women gets pregnant accidentally that she would need to drive out of state to get one. That people not unlike yourself have threatened and harassed doctors and even killed them because they believe in the law and that every women has the right to have an abortion.

You're catholic (I'm guessing w/the no condom comment) and I'm not. Case closed. You're never going to change people's minds...and if you're in it just to argue then have at it, man. You live in your world and I'll live in mine.

Jen said...

I betchya Sarah Palin didn't think her daughter was having sex either.

monkey girl said...

Ha.ha. Exactly.

patrick said...

Palin?
What about Obama's own mama? LOL! A white gal screwing a married man and getting knocked up...WOW and then marrying the guy making him a bigamist--wow what a slut!

No I do not supervise my kids 24/7 well the little one I do :) But just as you talk to your kiddies I talk to mine.


how is telling my daughter that it's critical that she respects herself enough to protect herself

See that is the problem. you don't even give her the benefit of the doubt that she may perhaps actually wait, your standards are so low that you assume she is going to have sex. How sad.

How do you get pregnant accidentally? If you have sex you might get pregnant. Dont want to get pregnant dont have sex! what a concept!

Jen said...

Obama never claims to be perfect, nor did we say that he was. I don't think his mother would say that either.

So, by your logic... Sarah Palin's daughter is a slut? Wow, that's awfully nice of you to say.

patrick said...

yup she is a slut (just like Obama's mama) but I give her kudos for keeping her child and not killin' it !

Oh and I am sure that Obamas grandma didn't think her daughter was having sex either, with a black married man at that--have to give her kudos for being forward thinking!

Jen said...

So anyone having premarital sex is a slut?

and why even mention that Obama's mother had sex with a black man? What difference does THAT make?

monkey girl said...

Wow.
It must be difficult for you to deal with change. Women have rights now, Blacks can vote and Gays are getting married. How do you deal with the fact it's not 1950 anymore?
I'm sure you've done your part in keeping the little woman barefoot and pregnant...or I'm guessing you're divorced now. You're the reason that intolerance keeps spreading through the generations.

We forward thinkers have to keep together...I know that must be scary and threatening for you.

patrick said...

Oh my gosh blacks can vote and woman have rights?! Who knew :-)

Actually sodomites can not get "married" well except in MA & CT otherwise they can only have "civil unions".

Intolerance? why because I value life at all stages? Because I do not think BC is wonderful? Because I do not think homosexuals should call their unions "marriage"? what exactly is your issue with people that have values and morals that are more conservative than yours? Not all of us see the benefit of abortion, faggot wanna be marriages and Planned Parenthood (found by Maraget Sanger who believed in EUGENICS--look it up, pretty scary stuff that you are supporting--oh wait you have no issues with PP and the government taking care of your kiddies).

Oh and as a side note I am happily married for the past 15 years!

patrick said...


Jen said...
So anyone having premarital sex is a slut?

and why even mention that Obama's mother had sex with a black man? What difference does THAT make?


Yup, what else do you call someone that can not control their body urges to the detriment of society? we could compare them to animals if you prefer--you know like a dog!

I was just pointing out that this woman is not better than any other slut out there today! Will fuck anything with a dick, regardless if they are married or not and regardless of their skin color!

Jen said...

Please don't use profanity on the comments. I was going to delete it, but I'd rather people see the ignorant/sexist/racist things you have to say.

Oh, and Webster's Dictionary defines "slut" as -- "a promiscuous woman"

It doesn't say anything about a slut being someone who has premarital sex.

patrick said...

Promiscuity refers to sexual behaviour of a man or woman who engages in sexual relations with multiple partners on a casual and/or regular basis.

I guess swingers would fit into that category too :-)

Jen said...

Yeah, I get that... but makes no reference to having sexual relations outside of marraige, which was your definition for "slut".

patrick said...

Jen what term would fit into your liberal vocab better?

Oh I got it fornicators, does that appease your liberal mind?

Now do you have an issue with sodomites to refer to homosexual males?

Jen said...

I'm just saying, let's get the words right, instead of creating them into what you want them to mean. I have a problem with the way you refer to a lot of things, but you are you and I am me.

patrick said...

Well the definition of a sodomite clearly fits homosexual males. What is the problem with that word? Is the issue that it does not place these guys in a positive light?